007 HUDSON VALLEY UFO EXPERIENCE - 5,000 Eyewitnesses! Zero Answers!

A silent craft the size of a football field. Thousands of witnesses. Zero clear explanation. Join the Henchmen this week as they dig into the sightings that shut down highways, baffled police, and left behind the biggest mass sighting ever ignored. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:10

This is the Conspiracy Journal Podcast. The transmission starts now.

Michelle 0:20

I need water before we get started.

Greg 0:23

Yeah, we're started.

Michelle 0:24

I wasn't ready.

Bobby 0:26

Do it closer than my fuck.

Michelle 0:29

Okay.

Bobby 0:32

Tell me about Hudson Valley UFO.

Michelle 0:36

Hudson Valley UFO. Okay. One of the things that I love about doing this podcast is I'm like, oh, I'm gonna do, I'm gonna cover the Hudson Valley UFO incident, you know? And in my mind, I remember it as this thing one way. And then I look it up and I'm like, that's not at all what happened.

Greg 0:56

Our memories are so dog shit.

Michelle 0:58

I know. I'm like, I kind of wish I did it without looking it up first to see, or or like wrote down what I thought it was and then compared notes to what it actually what actually happened. So I thought it was an incident. I thought it was a Hudson Valley incident that occurred at this one time, you know. But that's not what happened. It was it was an experience that happened over many years. So what happened was the way I remember it is 5,000 people in the Hudson Valley saw one UFO.

Bobby 1:32

When you say you remember it, like when this actually happened, you have a memory of it, or you you heard about it.

Michelle 1:39

No, this happened the month I was born. Okay. So I don't remember it. Yeah. So I remember it like in my cells, you know? Yeah. Um, so uh what what actually happened is over the course of between two to ten years, 5,000 people saw different UFOs in the Hudson Valley. So I'm now gonna refer to it as the Hudson Valley sightings and not the incident because an incident implies one thing one singular event.

Bobby 2:10

Just as long as I can still sing Hudson Valley UFO. Sure. Okay.

Michelle 2:15

So the sightings happened mostly over a two-year period from New Year's Eve 1982 to Halloween 1985. But some people saw them up into 89, some people are still seeing them today, so like you could say this experience has never really stopped.

Bobby 2:35

I'm gonna say that.

Michelle 2:36

Yeah.

Bobby 2:36

Yeah.

Michelle 2:36

Okay.

Greg 2:37

Is any of this uh included in like what was happening like over Jersey a couple years ago? Everyone's seen like absolutely not.

Bobby 2:44

Okay. You said 82 to 85, or sorry.

Michelle 2:47

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, but like the the shit that I like, you know, when the Westchester a boomerang, we're gonna call it when that was really popping off was 1984.

unknown 2:58

Okay.

Michelle 2:59

Coincidence that it would happen in the year 1984. I don't think it's a coincidence.

Greg 3:04

What would it be a coincidence? I don't know, George Orwell.

Michelle 3:07

I actually don't know because that had nothing to do with UFOs.

Bobby 3:10

Yeah.

Michelle 3:11

Listen, I don't know why I am the way I am. Okay.

unknown 3:14

Okay.

Bobby 3:15

It might be the Westchester boomerang might be at fault.

Michelle 3:18

Yeah. Anyway, okay, you guys, I'm off track. All right, so the Hudson Valley. Let's first of all talk about the Hudson Valley. The Hudson Valley is an area. Beautiful. Beautiful, beautiful area along the Hudson River, and it's just immediately above Manhattan. So it's Manhattan, directly north of Manhattan is the Bronx, and then we start Westchester County, and that starts the bottom of the Hudson Valley and is really where all of this stuff that I'm about to talk about happens in Westchester County. We're talking 20 minutes, 30 minutes outside of Manhattan. You're already in the Hudson Valley C in the UFOs. So come on a journey with me. It is now March 17th or the 24th, 1983 or 1984. Everyone's a little loose on some of these dates.

Bobby 4:09

Is that St. Paddy's Day?

Michelle 4:10

No, I think that's the 14th.

Bobby 4:12

I thought it was the 17th. Maybe that's why they're a little bit drunk. People are a little bit drunk.

Michelle 4:15

Yeah, yeah. Listen, it doesn't matter. It's March in the 80s. Everyone's feeling real nice. It's about to be spring. And so anyway, this was covered in Unsolved Mysteries. There's a lot of news reports, there's a lot of newspaper articles, there's a lot of documented accounts, like people telling their stories. And one of the things that a lot of people talk about who are reporting on this, not that experienced it, a lot of people say in this area, we have a lot of quote unquote respectable people. I think what people are trying to say is like, um, they're not, you know, crackpot loons. You know, we have police officers, we have city officials, we have teachers, we have one guy who was on Unsolved Mysteries, was like the vice president of IBM or something. Like people who have something to lose by saying, I saw a UFO.

Bobby 5:09

Big IBM action up there in Westchester. Big IBM. In this whole East Coast, dude. This is also like a classic. Uh so oftentimes people that see UFOs or cryptids or something like that are like what you you would classify as crackpot loons or people love to so there is a there's often this caveat, you know, that's like this person had a job. Yeah.

Michelle 5:30

So we know it was real.

Bobby 5:33

I find that adds a little relevancy and like believability to it. It's like just a cla it's a classic trip in these in these sightings for sure.

Michelle 5:40

Yeah, and I have to say that I fall victim to it also. Like that stands out to me when they're like, he had a job, so he must be telling the truth. I'm a little like, who what the fuck are you talking about? But when someone's a skeptic, for some reason I'm like, oh, this is legit because they're not a believer, you know. Somehow that fools me into thinking they're telling me the truth.

Greg 6:01

Yeah, you know? That's kind of like uh the show, what was it, Joe Rogan questions everything.

Michelle 6:05

Yeah.

Greg 6:06

And he talks about it. He's like, when even like when you go um bigfoot hunting, right? He's like, you're out in the woods with people that look like they go bigfoot hunting. It's like there's a type of person that goes out and do it, does it, but like I think that's changed over the years. I think more people are getting into this than just the wild ass folks that live in the woods. There's we don't know what we heard.

Michelle 6:26

Right, right, right. Yeah, I think that's true. Um, I think I think we have, you know, uh uh people in suits are talking about this stuff now, you know?

Bobby 6:36

Men in black.

Michelle 6:36

Uh-uh. Wow, I mean, okay. Because we have to believe people in suits. Yeah, that's right. Okay. So it's mid-March, it's the 80s, we're respectable people with jobs, right? And this one lady, this was so scary. This one lady's like with her kid, they're driving on the Taconic, and the kid's like, you know, mommy, what is that? And it she said it looked like truck lights right above the tree line. So not crazy high in the sky, just right above the tree line, coming directly at her. And, you know, that's gotta be terrifying. Like, what is falling out of the sky? What bright light is coming at me? And as it gets closer, she slows down. And now I'm kind of gonna jump around different people's stories. There's also a group of three women who were teachers um coming home from school, and they talked about not seeing the same exact thing, but that just it got very bright, you know, and for it to be nighttime on the Hudson Valley, still to this day, there are no street lights. It is very dark up there. So for it to get bright, I think would be if I was driving, I would cry. That's really scary. I don't like that.

Bobby 7:52

And if you've never been up there to the Hudson Valley or driven on the Taconic, it's one of the craziest ass highways in America. I've driven all over this country. It's too tight, you're driving too fast, there's no lights, there's too many turns. It's it's it's really unsettling and jarring. And yeah, if it got real bright all of a sudden, it would be fucking crazy.

Michelle 8:12

That's true. And now, um, nowadays they try to make it feel safer by putting up a lot of signage everywhere that's reflective, and there's a lot of do not enter signs everywhere that you can see from places where you are okay.

Bobby 8:25

If you've ever checked out the documentary There's something wrong with Aunt Diane, that takes place on the Taconic. And based on my experience, there uh is more something wrong with the New York Department of Transportation than there was with Aunt Diane because that road is fucked.

Michelle 8:37

Yeah, I agree. That was um a tragic story about a woman who drove in the opposite direction down the Taconic. And so everyone knows. It's crazy. Yeah, like it's really a fucked up highway. So you're on this fucked up highway at night and it gets bright. I'm already a no. I'm already I want out of this nightmare story. So now not only is it bright, but this lady starts to slow down because the Taconic has come to a complete stop. All the cars have stopped. Everyone has gotten out of their car, they're standing on the highway, they're standing in the grass offside off the side of the highway, looking up at this enormous UFO in the sky. And so the way most people describe it is V-shaped or boomerang shaped. A lot of lights on the bottom. Some people are like, they're moving, some people are like they're red, then they're green, then they're white, then they're stroby, then they're still. But what everyone agrees on is that it's silent, completely silent. You can hear crickets like fuck you. There's a giant thing in the sky, there's no sound. I'm out of here. I don't know about you guys, but I'm out of here. I don't like it.

Bobby 9:54

The lack of sound makes it so much more terrifying.

Michelle 9:57

It's so eerie, I can't even handle it. Um, so people describe it. A lot of people like to use football field as a reference. A lot of people say one football field, some people say two. There was a guy who was very poetic. He was on the city council. Um, so we know he's legit. He's got a city council job.

Bobby 10:14

Did he measure it in leagues or something?

Michelle 10:16

No. No, he called it a city of lights, which I thought was beautiful, right? Beautiful. And reminds me of, I don't know if you guys have experienced this, but if you're like walking down the street in Manhattan, you can see the Hudson River, and then you see a cruise ship go by and it looks like a fucking building is sailing down. Yeah, yeah. That's what I picture a city of lights in the sky to be like, like a cruise liner size in the sky, but flat and boomerang-shaped. Obviously.

Bobby 10:48

Do we have a sorry, just for my own question? Do we have any idea of how many people are like on the highway right now? Is it like tens of people or like a hundred?

Michelle 10:58

That's a great question. I'm gonna call my city councilman. Okay, and I'm gonna ask him exactly how many people were there.

Bobby 11:04

And I like uh yeah, from doing a lot of research, like there's like pretty basic stuff that sometimes is just not known. It's like we just don't know nobody said, So, especially when it's in the 80s.

Michelle 11:13

Uh yeah. Okay, so here's the problem with like numbers. That's the problem with numbers, you guys. All right. Let me tell you about numbers. Um, they're problematic because this happens multiple times. There's multiple times that the taconic comes to a stop. So I think sometimes it's a handful of people. It depends on where on the taconic you were and like what night we're actually talking about. Right, right. But on the the big night, people are calling the cops. Now, apparently 911 was like invented but not really used. So people are calling the police station, and so like the lines are lighting up, the phones are off the hook, everyone is like, holy shit, there's something crazy in the sky. And the cops are like, Yeah, same. I see it. I see it too. Uh, we don't know what it is and we don't know what to do. Thank you for calling. Stop, please stop calling. Thank you for telling us. Um, and so like that's basically the reaction.

Greg 12:16

I mean, what would you do? Like, yeah, other than say that to the person. It's like, yeah, we see it.

Michelle 12:21

Yeah, and I mean it was a different time. We I feel like in the 80s we weren't so gaslighty, you know. The cops were just like, yeah, we see it too. Like, thank you for calling, whatever. Um, there is, like I said before, Unsolved Mysteries, one of my favorite shows in the history of my lifetime.

Bobby 12:36

Shout out Robert Stack.

Michelle 12:37

Oh God, right?

Bobby 12:38

Yeah, and his trench coat.

unknown 12:40

I know.

Michelle 12:41

Um, so they interview a police officer who saw it, and she is like, so this happened in the 80s. The Unsolved Mysteries comes in like '92 to interview her, and she is still pumped. You know, when she's telling her story, she's like, yo, I'm sitting on the side of the highway doing like traffic control or whatever, and a fucking UFO comes down and she's like, I was not scared. I was really interested, and it was going really slow, so I decided to follow it. And then somebody gets on the like, you know, whatever it's called, the police radio, and is like, you know, 10-4 Roger Roger, we got a UFO in the sky, and she's like, Oh, dude, me too. I see it in the sky, and they're like chasing UFOs. Like, I gotta say, that's better than a lost dog or somebody, you know, getting a DUI or something. I'm gonna go chase an alien ship. That's that's a fun night on duty.

Bobby 13:34

I mean, I kind of know the answer because you two are absolute kooks. Uh are you chasing the UFO or are you running away?

Michelle 13:42

Me?

Bobby 13:43

Yeah.

Michelle 13:43

I am so far gone.

Bobby 13:47

And here I am. I'm like, I'm gonna try hitting it with a rock or something. Yeah, dude. Okay, I was wrong. I thought you'd be like, yeah, I'm into it, but you're not gonna be able to do it.

Michelle 13:55

But dude, as soon as the white headlights were above the tree line coming at me on the tree, you fucking dump out of there so hard. Gone, dude. Yeah.

Greg 14:03

Nope.

Michelle 14:04

I'm going back to Manhattan. I'll see you fucking Hudson Valley fucks later.

Greg 14:08

I'm just like that typical white dude that's just like, oh, there's danger. Let me get a closer look of that. Like I'm just like, can you let me see what it is?

Michelle 14:15

You're gonna stand with your hands on your hip and dad pote. Yeah, it's probably two football fields, I think.

Greg 14:20

Yeah, can we bring that closer? I just want to get a better look at this.

Michelle 14:24

It is complete danger, but like maybe So the poetic city council guy who um said that it was a city of lights. So when he saw it the first time, he was at home and he saw it in his front yard. And he said it was really low, it was L-shaped, and it was, you know, a city of lights in his front yard, and he's like, freak it out, and it's going over the house. So he decides to run into the backyard so that he can see it in the backyard. He goes back there and it's gone. Also, a lot of people report that it moves really slowly and then shoots straight up vertical, gone, poof, goodbye. So it must have poofed right over his house. By the time he got to the backyard, it had already poofed away. So he puts his kids to sleep, you know, totally normal the rest of the night, whatever that was weird. City of lights in the front yard. Then he eats dinner or whatever, puts the kids to sleep, goes to take the trash out, and it's fucking back. And this time he can see I think highway 98 is also another one of these highways that's like a hot spot, and for some reason people think it's acceptable to stop on, you know. So 98, like people have stopped on the highway that he can see from his house. And now the way he describes it is, you know, I'm like, oh, some people are saying V-shaped, he's saying L-shaped, but he made me understand L's and Vs, you know, because he was like he was I mean, it's all perspective of like. Exactly, exactly. So now the L has like rotated a little bit and now it looks like a V. And I'm like, ah, dude, word, word, word, word. So now it's a V.

Greg 16:03

This is all like it's uh like aliens and UFOs are like the raccoons of interstellar space. Like they just show up at night and then they get spooked and they leave. They're just like following us.

Michelle 16:15

Yeah, right.

Greg 16:16

They're inspecting things and like, oh what, what?

Michelle 16:18

Oh, later.

Bobby 16:19

They're moving real slow, like you can't see them.

Michelle 16:21

Right.

Greg 16:23

They stop and buy.

Michelle 16:24

How can you see me? Um so oh, right. So the city councilman, he's out in his front yard now looking at the the L has turned into a V and the highway stopped and whatever. I like his so he was like, if I was a younger man and I had a baseball and a bat, I could have hit it. That's how close I was. Was this Greg? Yeah. So just letting you know that your math is not alone. Yeah.

Bobby 16:57

This is also like a good reason or a good thing that like less people have guns in these scenarios. Because it's like somebody would have shot that guy.

Michelle 17:04

Oh, yeah, for sure. Yeah, I gotta man.

Bobby 17:07

I want to I want to try to find a UFO story where somebody tried to shoot shoot the UFO. Absolutely. Yeah, because especially, you know, we talked about the trope of like often who's seeing these UFOs is jobless yokels who have been drinking. You know they got guns.

Michelle 17:22

Mm-hmm.

Bobby 17:23

Somebody's gotta take a shot at it. I mean, I probably would.

Michelle 17:26

Yeah.

Greg 17:26

There's a story from uh a couple years ago I mentioned earlier the uh the drones over Jersey thing. Right. Where there's a video online. I think it was faked, but it's hard to tell. Um, but there is a video of like a dude just shooting his gun at the things like Hell yeah, Jersey.

Michelle 17:41

You guys put your guns away.

Bobby 17:44

What are we gonna do when the drones attack?

Michelle 17:46

Shoot them, apparently.

Bobby 17:47

Yeah, that's right. If I was a younger man and I had a baseball and a bat, I would have hit it. I could have hit it.

Michelle 17:53

That's how close it was. Um, so people are reporting that they are seeing the same shaped craft. They're all their stories sound the same, you know? It's V-shaped, depending on your perspective, maybe an L. It's got lights, it's big, it goes slow, and then it poofs away. Sure. Loves highways and the Hudson Valley. And the cops are like, yeah, yeah, yeah, we see it too. So now so now some cops are like, nah, dude, those are planes. That's planes. I know what a plane looks like, that's a plane. They're flying in a V-shape, why goose-like formation. I don't know why men like to talk about the geese and the V shape, but it does make me understand, so whatever. May explain it to me. You know what? It's just not a good idea. I think they like to talk about it because that's how geese fly. Yeah, women aren't like, you know, like geese fly. We don't do that. But you know what? It did help me understand what what they meant.

Bobby 18:54

What would you use to describe the V formation?

Michelle 18:56

A V. The letter V brought to you by the letter V.

Bobby 19:00

But if you were gonna equate it to a natural phenomenon.

Michelle 19:03

Why would I? Everyone knows what a V looks like.

Bobby 19:05

Because we're talking about things that are flying.

Michelle 19:07

Sure.

Greg 19:08

But they're like like planes don't fly that way. Like if anything, it would like they would have to be commercial flights, and like they would never do that.

Bobby 19:15

I've never seen the blue angels, bro.

Greg 19:17

Well, that's what I'm saying. Like military would do that, but it's for very specific things, and they wouldn't be in like one area.

Michelle 19:24

Right. That or would they? Yeah.

Bobby 19:26

So this is Which is yeah, the cops being like, it's planes, that's how planes fly in a V. That's bullshit.

Michelle 19:32

But yeah, I we all call bullshit.

Bobby 19:34

But I'm just defending my brothers who are like who are like kind of like geese. I don't think that's crazy to say. That's all.

Michelle 19:41

Listen, did I not say that it helped me? I said it was, you know what, men say it, but it was right that. I did. I wasn't happy about it, all right? Yeah, but you were right.

Greg 19:51

But if it was hovering too, like the only thing that that could be back then was would be like helicopters, and they would be loud as fuck.

Michelle 19:59

Loud as fuck. Yeah, we all know what a helicopter sounds like.

Greg 20:01

Yeah, yeah, loud as fuck. Even when you don't see it in the sky, like especially in New York when like they're like trying to hunt someone down, like it'll be mile away and you can hear it. And like you're always looking up and like, where's the fucking helicopter? I hear it.

Bobby 20:13

Especially when they're stationary, like when they're hovering.

Greg 20:15

It's so annoying. Yeah. Go away. And what you have like 15 of those like in one area doing like what what what are we talking about here?

Michelle 20:23

I know.

Bobby 20:24

I used to live in LA and I would see when they were doing a manhunt, I could tell what was going on because I would look up and I would see one chopper low and then four choppers higher at the same level, and the low chopper was the police helicopter, and then it was the four management. And then it was news stations above, and it was just this like very specific formation. Yeah. Uh I lived in Hollywood, so there was like a fair amount of chases around there, and so this was like a semi, semi-regular occurrence. Yeah. And and yeah, there's no uh I was never like, oh, is that a UFO?

Michelle 20:53

Right, right. Yeah. So actually, that's a very good point. So thank you. You're welcome. Um, all right, there is a New York Times article. Around this time, people were considered kooks if they saw UFOs, but you can't have 5,000 people call the cops and it not be talked about on the news. I mean, I guess you could, but that's not what happened. There were endless amounts of news articles and newspaper articles, magazines, the nightly news, all of that stuff was reporting on this. And there was a New York Times article that came out on August 25th, 1984, that talked about this one state trooper or whatever police officer of some sort who followed the UFO to Stormville Airport in somewhere in the Hudson Valley. And he said, and I quote it was a group of light planes. They fly in formation, the undersides and under the wings are painted black, so they can't be seen from the ground. The planes are rigged with bright. Lights so that they can turn from one color to another, and the lights are what give it the UFO shape. So even though it did take me a moment to understand L's and Vs, I do understand how at night, if it was painted black, you could use the lights to make it look like a different shape than it actually is. That I can for some reason easily understand in my brain.

Greg 22:22

But how big?

Michelle 22:23

But how big, right?

Greg 22:25

So how big is this thing? That like, oh well, it's it's painted black and like there's lights in different areas that make it look like it's a shape, but it's probably not that shape. But like if they're saying a city of lights. I know. So how big is this thing?

Michelle 22:37

They they uh fucking men. They always have an answer for everything. They're like, oh, well, it's not just one, it's a formation. So they are trying to make us believe that multiple small planes have been painted black and are going in formation over this area very slowly.

Bobby 22:57

Yeah, and could also like hover in place.

Michelle 22:59

Yeah, no one actually said that it was hovering, but just that it was going very, very slowly.

Greg 23:04

And so if that were the case, then too, it would have to be incredibly high. That to our perception it was moving slow, but they were moving at a normal rate of speed. But if it's super low, and like it would they would have to be huge. Like even if it is just like, oh, well, let's say it's 10 of them, like it would they would still have to be big enough. They one they wouldn't be making noise, and then there's no account for it, like there's no account for it moving slow other than that it was super high in the air.

Bobby 23:39

If something's moving at any rate of speed, you're not gonna stop to look at it. You know, like so the the the fact that people stop and get out of their car to look at this thing tells me that it's like moving very slowly.

Michelle 23:51

Very, very slowly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I mean, I understand that like depth and our perception of what speed is from such a distance is crazy, right? We all have seen commercial planes in the sky, and most of us most of us have been on one. We're fucking moving fast, you know. We can get from one side of the country to the other in six hours. That's really fast. But when I'm standing on the ground looking at one fly above me, it doesn't look like it's going that fast.

Greg 24:19

Yeah, you know, but that's the like going back to my point of like the these crafts would have had to been huge.

Michelle 24:25

Yeah, yeah, and very high.

Greg 24:27

And very high for like the lights to to even look like they were close to us, right?

Michelle 24:32

Like while some people are reporting that it's right above the tree line, right? You know, like that's super close. I could hit it with a baseball.

unknown 24:39

Yeah.

Bobby 24:40

Like the this like cop, his explanation is like, okay, I followed him. It turns out it's just a bunch of technology that doesn't exist. So don't worry about it.

Michelle 24:49

Don't worry about it. It's somewhere in the Hudson Valley.

Greg 24:51

So you could say it's unidentified.

Michelle 24:54

Oh. And it's flying. Flying? And an object?

Greg 24:58

It's probably an object. Uh valley UFO.

Michelle 25:01

Yes.

unknown 25:02

Okay.

Bobby 25:03

I want to see the sitcom.

Michelle 25:05

I know.

Bobby 25:05

It's a Loretta Lynn song. I had to look it up. It was the Harper Valley PTA is what it was what it is. Yeah.

Michelle 25:11

Huh? Cinvalley UFO.

Bobby 25:14

Yeah.

Michelle 25:14

Okay, so right. We we've got this cop who's like, definitely it's planes. Don't worry about it. They're painted black. They got lights. It's totally fine. Yeah. There's also a couple other cops who are like, he's right, totally. So people call the FAA and they're like, yo, you guys, are there planes information flying around here? The quote in the New York Times article from Lewis Achkoff, the spokesperson for the Eastern Regional FAA, said, Why would we care about a UFO? If the pilot's up there with a clearance and at the right altitude, we don't care what planet he comes from.

SPEAKER_02 25:51

Fuck yeah, Luis.

Michelle 25:52

Yo, 1984 was a fucking time.

Bobby 25:56

What a as long as they're following the regs, dude. Yeah, who cares? And then we're doing our job. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Greg 26:03

That's such an odd and specific way to dismiss what anyone's telling you.

Bobby 26:09

I kind of love it though. It's kind of like respect, dude. Yeah. He's like, I work for the FAA, dude. If they're with between the lines, write off.

Michelle 26:16

Whatever.

Greg 26:17

Yeah. That's uh, you know, as well if the you know, if they're not breaking the law.

Bobby 26:20

Yeah, he's like he's like, good for us, dude. We're regulating air travel from the interstellars.

Michelle 26:25

That's right. Yeah, you're welcome.

Bobby 26:27

Yeah.

Michelle 26:30

So um I can just picture this dude.

Bobby 26:33

I picture the suit he's wearing, I can picture his tie, I can picture his fucking combover and his gut.

Michelle 26:39

Totally. Um sassy ass Lewis. Fucking gray life, motherfucker. Um, so um a lot of people have a lot to say about the plane theory. And most of it is just exactly what we were just saying. Like if it was plane, that makes no sense. This makes no sense. A lot of these sightings are at dusk when you would be able to see if it was a plane painted black, you know? Um the other thing is in order for it to maintain this shape, they would have to be very small planes and they would have to be very close together. We're talking like three feet or something, and that's like not a safe distance.

Bobby 27:21

That's not FA guidelines.

Michelle 27:23

So that is not a safe distance. Oh, you know something though? There was somebody interviewed in one of the documentaries that I saw that was like, I don't know what his official capacity was, but he was being interviewed at an airport. So he seemed official.

Greg 27:38

Yeah.

Michelle 27:38

Yeah.

Greg 27:40

Not even like in the airport drug at the next to a fence.

Bobby 27:42

I was gonna say, was he next to a fence?

Michelle 27:44

He was outside the hangar. Okay. One of the hangers. It was like hangar number one or whatever. So like he was legit.

Bobby 27:49

He's at least they let him inside.

Michelle 27:50

Yeah, he was inside the gate.

Bobby 27:52

Yeah.

Michelle 27:52

Um, so uh he I lost my train of thought, you guys. I forget what he said. He said something um about being close together, too close together. Oh, the actual law. There isn't a law about how close you can fly together. It's just up to the pilots to consider it a safe distance.

Greg 28:16

So um And doing something like this at night would be incredibly safe.

Michelle 28:20

Oh, yeah, yeah, totally, totally. It's fine. So, anyway, the other the other theory about the plane. Okay, all right. So there's a couple things to say about this. No one believes the planes. Also, um, no one called the cops when planes did fly over because a bunch of fucking hoodlum pilots had a bright idea to try to do this. They called themselves the Martians. They had little planes and they would fly at night and do weird light shit and try to spook people.

Greg 28:53

I like that because like it's they're inadvertently doing like a science experiment. They're trying to like recreate the outcomes in order to like prove something one way or the other.

Michelle 29:01

Right. And they did it, they even said like we were doing it so that we could check in the newspaper the next day and see how many reportings were reported or how many sightings were reported or whatever, and uh no one reported them when they saw them. They there were also multiple people who had seen the UFO and had seen the planes, and was like, that's not what I saw. That's planes. Yeah, I see the planes, that's not what I saw the other night. So myth busted. Um, also going back to Unsolved Mysteries, our homie and hero Robert Stack asked those pilots, the Martian guys, to recreate their flights, you know, their like organized goose V nighttime flights during the day so that we could see it and they wouldn't do it. Red flag, you guys. So lies lies. Lies, liars. One of the other things they said when people were talking about, like, oh, okay, well, if they weren't like small planes, maybe they were ultralights. I was watching a lot of people's interviews, um, and they were like, I saw this and I saw that, and when I saw the ultralights and whatever. And so what I thought that they were talking about was some sort of light, like a ultra light of some sort. No, dude, they're talking about basically radio flyer, like it's like a little tiny go-kart with wings and like a lawnmower engine in the back. Do you guys know what I'm talking about?

Bobby 30:44

Yeah, for sure. I grew up next to uh like a really small airport.

Michelle 30:47

Okay.

Bobby 30:48

Uh in a really small town. And so there was a lot of this type of stuff going on.

Greg 30:52

Oh, so is it like a like more of like a little glider? It's like a one-person type of thing. Exactly. Yep.

Bobby 30:58

And uh I think uh yeah, it's just like it's a very affordable entry into aviation. So if you're like a just a regular person who's a pilot, uh you could you're you're probably gonna fly an ultralight, like it's much, it's much cheaper than a Cessna. It's like a glider, essentially, but like this size with an engine. With an engine, yeah, exactly. Exactly, exactly. Very minimal, very minimal aircraft is what we're talking about. Yep.

Michelle 31:20

Yeah, so that's crazy. That's even crazier. Oh, I want to do it. Are you kidding me?

Bobby 31:29

It's like skydiving, but not like you can't you don't want to be falling in this skydiving without a parachute.

Michelle 31:35

Yeah, it's like a skydiving plane toy. I'm into it. I definitely want to try it. Like, no shade on these guys. These guys are legit. But to say that that's what it was is insane. It's even crazier than that. It's crazy. Yeah, yeah.

Bobby 31:52

Um, so this is like it's really wild to me. Like the lengths people go to explain this stuff. You just be like, yeah, that's crazy. You know what I mean? You just be like, I don't know.

Greg 32:02

Dude, it's like people have this like huge, like adverse reaction to wanting to just say, I don't know. Right. Like that's so crazy that they'll like think of everything that like it could possibly be, and it's just but it's also like limited to what their knowledge is. Like we all suffer from this. So, like, whenever we're trying to explain anything, we put it in a in into a way that like this is recognizable to me as this, but like trying to if you see something that you've never seen before, how do you even put it into words and right?

Michelle 32:34

You don't have the language for it.

Bobby 32:36

If you say I forget them off that spot, then they're like, Oh, it must have been the military, it's some secret technology the military has. And it's like, dude, why can it not be? Like, if have you ever looked at the fucking sky, friend? Yeah, there's a lot of stuff going on out there. There's so much stuff. I mean, if we got little planes around here, it's pretty possible somebody else got little planes somewhere else. Just saying.

Greg 32:54

Yeah, it's such a dumb, like default way to again, it just to dismiss things and just be like, oh, well, that's just the military. Yeah, yeah. They have things that are like 20 years more advanced than we even know about. And it's just like, oh, okay, yeah, like it could be something else, though. Like that's uh it's such a weird like way to just be like, oh yeah, I don't know, but neither do you, and it is what it is. It's probably just the military.

Bobby 33:18

The military using technology that they stole from interstellar travelers, yeah.

Michelle 33:22

That's probably what it is.

Greg 33:24

Yeah, I like Ockham's Razor. They even like that's it. That's a good point that they even put that in there. It's like, oh well, they have this alien technology from the crashed UFOs, and it's like how is it still the military though?

Bobby 33:38

Using technology from a different crashed UFO, but this is just planes for sure.

Greg 33:42

Yeah, this is a version of that that they used from the like, what do you do you understand like the how that sounds crazier?

Michelle 33:49

So you remember the pilot guy that was at the airport in front of the hangar? Yeah. The guy who's yeah, the guy who is legit as fuck. So he's an ultralight dude, and he was like, This is crazy. First of all, not a lot of guys have these things. So you would have to get guys from all over this area who have these to get together at night and fly them together next to each other. He's like, you can't even control these things like that. You guys you can't be in a formation that looks like fighter jet perfect V in a flying lawnmower machine. Like you just can't, you know. Um, and he that guy rolled.

SPEAKER_02 34:34

Was he wearing a ball cap?

Michelle 34:36

He was. Fuck yeah, he was. Yeah. Um, and also flying one of these at night is illegal. Number. That tracks. Yeah. Um, but one of the guys at the airport was like, we do have little lights that we can put on the bottom of them that are kind of stroby, and we are allowed to fly for a half an hour past dusk.

Bobby 35:00

Civil Twilight.

Michelle 35:01

Is that what that's called?

Bobby 35:02

Yeah. Civil Twilight is the time after sunset, but before it actually gets dark.

Michelle 35:08

But it's civil just because like you can still see.

Bobby 35:13

I have no idea about where the term came from. I just know that that's what that time is called.

Michelle 35:19

Okay. We're civilized still because.

Bobby 35:21

And for some reason I like it.

Michelle 35:23

I like it too, but I just wanted to know why.

Bobby 35:26

I have no idea.

Michelle 35:28

Anyway, our our very civilized gentleman at the airport, who may or may not be a pilot, but is an ultralight guy, said that you can fly during civil sunset. Twilight. Whatever. Um, but he was basically just like, there's no way you guys are all nuts. There's no way that this was a group of ultralights. He also mansplained depth perception and airspeed for a little while, but I feel like we've already covered that, so I'm not gonna go over it.

Greg 36:00

Oh, did he get into like what we were talking about earlier?

Michelle 36:02

Yeah, and he was also saying, like, um, these so ultralights don't go very fast, you know? And so if they're flying at like, I think that they want to stay, because they also don't go very high, that's another thing. And so I think they want to stay around 22 to 30 miles an hour, which is fucking slow in the in the air, but you're not that high. And he was like, But if the wind is blowing at 10 miles an hour from the ground, it's gonna seem as though even though I'm going 22, but I'm going against a 10 mile an hour force from the ground, it's gonna seem like 12 miles an hour.

Greg 36:35

It's like when you see like a like a bird flying and it looks like it's just like a big thing.

Michelle 36:39

Yeah, hovering, yeah, because he's getting pelted by the wind. Poor little seagull. I don't know why it's a seagull in my mind.

Greg 36:44

It was a seagull in my mind, too. Oh yeah?

Michelle 36:47

What does that mean? Okay, so I think I feel good about saying there's no goddamn way it was planes. So fuck all those guys who said it was planes.

Greg 36:57

Um, so now also, real quick, um with an ultralight, and they would have to put like giant floodlights on these things, which would also cause a problem for the ultralight. And when I I don't know offhand when the FAA started regulating um their flight lights. Like you need specific lights on your on the tips of your wings. Like that's a regulated thing.

Michelle 37:22

Yeah, I think because those guys can't go very high and they're only allowed to fly during the day.

Greg 37:26

I don't think that they have to have a lot of the lights because if it goes in the air, like it needs lights on it. Even like even today, like even those little personal drones, like they all have the lights. You need to have like the little like red and green lights on.

Michelle 37:38

I mean, I know that they're little, but I'm looking at pictures and I don't see any lights on these little lawn flying lawnmower machines, but I'm sure they're probably there. So I'm gonna stop talking about planes because it it wasn't planes. Um, also, those ultralight guys are ultra loud. Like they're so loud.

Greg 37:59

It's essentially it's like a smaller helicopter. Yeah. And again, you put like 15 of them in the air, you're just gonna hear like crazy lawnmowers in the in the sky.

Michelle 38:07

Exactly. Um, and so between the, you know, all of the sightings, but the lights are scary. Um, you know, we've already discovered that as soon as I saw the lights, I would be out. But the fact that everyone says that it was totally silent is the thing that creeps me out the most, and is also the thing that debunks all all other theories of planes, ultralights, helicopters, like it can't be any of those things. We've all been around them, they're loud as fuck. So we're moving on. So at this time, um, besides the people who were trying to debunk it with plane theories, there were also people uh trying to investigate this. Like, what the F is happening in the Hudson Valley? So there were hotlines created, which we love a hotline. Um Strange Exchange. That's right. Uh so this is we invented hotlines in the 1980s before the Strange Exchange. We already knew that this was the way. We being like the people, you know. Um, so there would be like advertisements in the local papers as well that were just like, have you seen a UFO? Call this number. P.S. I definitely called the number and it's out of service. But I was pretty pumped.

Bobby 39:30

Anyway, so what if just a regular person answered? Hello.

Michelle 39:37

When you Google the phone number, which I'll give you guys the phone number, it's it's in, you know, you can look it up. It's 914-739-6830. When you look that up, a cleaner's like a like a laundromat comes up. And so I thought it was that. But then you can also, it will lead you to some of these like old articles and stuff. So look it up. It's pretty rad stuff. Um, so in 1984, the people in this area were tripping out. They're calling the hotlines, you know, they're they're seeing shit.

Bobby 40:08

It's why they're a regular police number.

Michelle 40:10

They're calling everybody. This shit is crazy. Call your mom, call your dad, call everybody, this shit is crazy.

Greg 40:16

So call someone that has baseball in a home. Yeah, try to hit it.

Michelle 40:20

Yeah.

Greg 40:20

Yeah. Um, so get the little league team out. Yeah. Yeah.

Michelle 40:24

Surprisingly, that I didn't hear any accounts from kids, but maybe that's because they weren't allowed to account it. But anyway, in 1984, in Brewster, New York, they have a New York UFO, like uh they call like a town meeting, basically. And they're like, everybody come to the town hall and we're gonna talk about this shit. What they did not expect was 1,500 people show up. Yeah, yeah. Like the news shows up. Everybody like, this is huge. Probably at the time, the biggest UFO.

Bobby 40:54

This is all that's happening in Brewster, right? Yeah, right. It turns out we're a little bit curious. And it seems like maybe you got some answers.

Michelle 41:00

Exactly. And also it's very close to New York City, you know, so it's easy for people to get to. Uh, you know, uh easy for a large amount of people to get to, even though it's like remote. And also, I mean, we know small town life. These people are not missing this town meeting. There's no way.

Greg 41:17

You have a bunch of people like us. Like, if we heard of like, okay, they're gonna have a town meeting in like Brewster, New York, like we're in New York City.

Michelle 41:24

I'm there.

Greg 41:25

Like, and it's they're going to be talking about a UFO that they saw. It's like, oh, we're going.

Michelle 41:29

I'm going.

Greg 41:30

So I can only imagine that like it's sparked the interest of like a ton of other people that just went up.

Bobby 41:35

Do you think your uncle was there?

Michelle 41:37

I hope so. I don't know. I wish he was alive to tell me.

Bobby 41:39

That would be wild if he like had some notes about this. Because like he was he was here doing the Mr. UFO like at that time.

Michelle 41:45

Like he was definitely tracking this as it was happening. He was literally sitting right where I'm sitting right now. Yeah. Was his where his desk was, you know, probably reading this in the newspaper. Yeah. You know, crazy.

SPEAKER_01 41:57

Yeah.

Michelle 41:58

Wow. Um, I did look through, you know, all the electronic records I have of his to see if I could find anything on it, and I couldn't. But um probably destroyed by the government. Definitely. Yeah. Um, but there there was a guy, the guy who put together this town hall meeting, his name was Peter Gerston. He was a criminal lawyer. Again, had a job, so we know he's legit. Uh he saw he lived in Peakskill and he saw a UFO from his apartment. Um, so he was a guy with a job, but also a believer. So we like that. Um, so he invited UFO experts and researchers and stuff to this town hall meeting. So that probably helped spark, you know, um, not just local loons, but you know, people who were, you know, legit investigators and stuff. And we're uncle was there for sure.

Greg 42:52

I hope so. Yeah.

Michelle 42:53

Um, unless he was like drunk, you know. Um, so among all right, so back to that New York Times article where they were like, oh, you know, I I um the New York Times article is actually pretty good because it's like, hey, there was a bunch of sightings, but then also there was this cop who was like, you know, it's just planes and I tracked them. But then the end of the article is like, we're gonna have, you know, a town hall meeting and you can call this hotline and whatever. So it was like, I I I thought it was a great article, but I pulled this straight from the article um that Peter Gerson's gonna put together this uh town hall meeting, and among the people attending will be Dr. J. Alan Heinek, who is a what up, Dr.

Bobby 43:39

Heinek? Heinek! Yeah, he came in and saw the Pasco Goula guys.

Michelle 43:42

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Dude, this guy is so legit. So he is the retired head of the astronomy department at Northwestern. He's a former associate director of the Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory and the former, a former consultant to the Air Force on Union. UFO's, aka Project Blue Book.

Bobby 44:03

Yeah. And a former skeptic, which you love.

Michelle 44:05

Yes. Exactly. Dude, not only is he a former skeptic, but he was like the guy who invented it with swamp gas. You know? Um, I think he may have been like the original weather balloon guy. You know what I mean? Like he was just like, this is not a UFO and aliens, you guys are fucking nuts. Swamps fart, and that's what you saw.

Greg 44:31

It was like like uh irradiated methane gas escaping from like this. Like we should find this swamp that's like emitting this crazy gas, I think. Totally that sounds more important.

Michelle 44:45

Right. We love Dr. Heinek. So it m-I don't know if that phone number I gave you guys earlier was Dr. Heinek's, but he also started a call center where you could call and leave your um sighting. Also, you could listen to other people's sightings, which I feel like was some pretty advanced technology for back then. It wasn't just like, you know, an answering machine. It was some sort of interactive phone line that you could call, which I thought was pretty cool. And um he documents everybody's account. And he gets together with another guy, actually, another two dudes. Um Pratt. I did not note his first name, but it was like Bob or something. But Bobby, Mr. Pratt. He's like a MUFON guy, he's a journalist, he's written for like a lot of like UFO review magazine, and you know.

Greg 45:41

Can we uh tell our listeners what Mufon is? Ah, dude.

Michelle 45:45

Guys, MUFON, I don't know what the acronym stands for. Let me Google it. I think it's MUFON. Basically, it's a net mutual UFO network. So they are this organization that you can join uh with your fellow believers and you can become a UFO investigator.

Greg 46:07

Do they have a website?

Michelle 46:09

Uh yeah, dude. Yeah, they do.

Greg 46:10

Is it just Mufon.com?

Michelle 46:12

Um, I mean, I'm on something fucking weird as shit right now, but I'm sure it is MUFON.com. Yeah. They're all over the country. Um, speaking of my uncle, he was homies with one of the old school MUFON dudes, and he used to advertise conspiracy journal in MUFON's uh actual like physical magazine that used to come out. I don't know if they still do that, but they do. Um a subscriber to their newsletter. They're a huge organization, so you can be a MUFO investigator, you can look up um all kinds of uh facts. Um it's kind of like a legitimate source of research.

Bobby 46:54

And if you join, you get some swag, which I think is dope. You get a MUFON hat, you get the membership card, you get the jam.

Michelle 47:00

As soon as we make a little bit of money, I'm gonna join MUFON and I want some fucking training and I wanna get out there. Um, but they also have an extensive uh library of accounts, so you can call them and you can leave their leave them, you know, uh whatever it is that you saw. You can file a report and people can will come out and investigate it and then write a report on it. It's move on, is sick, bro. Um, okay, so Heinek.

Bobby 47:30

Uh I just I love I just gotta say, I love this guy. I mean, like the fact that he came from this background, this is like hard science background, skeptic background, and then just through through his exposure, through his investigations, became a believer over time. It's like it's such a story.

Michelle 47:48

Yeah. Heinek, you're the man. Um, if you look him up. Okay, sorry. So Heinek, who I feel like is probably like the lead of this team, collects all of this data from all of these people in the Hudson Valley who are saying they saw something. He gets together with Mr. Pratt, who is like a MUFON journalist. Um, I don't know what Mr. Pratt looks like, but when you Google pictures of Jay Allen Heinek, he looks incredible. He looks like an old dude. He literally smokes a pipe. You know, he wears like a tweed blazer, like he looks like a super smarty pants astronomy professor guy.

Greg 48:28

Gotta take him serious. Yeah. He's got a pipe and a tweed jacket.

Michelle 48:31

I mean, dude, he's he's a physicist and he knows stuff like about gas.

Bobby 48:40

Um he is he does look exactly how you want him to look. He does, he does.

Michelle 48:45

It's like it's perfect.

Bobby 48:47

It's like when I knew the ultralight guy was wearing a ball cap. Yeah. It's like I love when a guy looks how you want him to look.

Michelle 48:52

Exactly. So there's another dude, though, who is part of his team. A possum. Mm-hmm. Philip J. Imbrogno. When you look this guy up, he looks like a bald villain from a terrible episode of Law and Order or something. Like you just you don't like this guy off the bat. And this guy. Oh, look him up. He looked him up. Yeah, everybody looked him up. Philip J. Imbrogeno. Yeah, yeah. Bad guy. Right, dude. Bad guy. We don't like this guy. Yeah. He's like basically like, I was in the military. I know everything about planes and UFOs. All of it. I know about it because I went to MIT and I'm science. And you're wrong, and I'm right. I also, all those guys are talking about the UFO. I saw it. And also in this area, it was the Indian Point Nuclear Power Plant. Is it in the Hudson Valley? He's like, they called me. And they were like, come look at the UFO that's outside. And I was like, cool. And he was like, all the military guys in the area who would like come out to investigate stuff like this. He's like, they all called me. They all know me. They all called me. Turns out everything that guy said was a lie. So he was never in the military. He didn't go to MIT. He is he's bad. He is a bad man. We knew from looking at him. Stolen valid.

Bobby 50:15

These are the real problem people who are kooks pretending to be legit.

Michelle 50:20

That's what I'm getting to. Is so these three guys put out a book called Night Siege, the Hudson Valley UFO sightings.

Bobby 50:28

Sick name for a book, though. So sick. Much respect. So sick.

Michelle 50:32

And it's considered one of the most journalistic UFO books ever written because it is dry and boring. It is. He just lists.

SPEAKER_02 50:44

This book sucks.

Michelle 50:44

This book sucks. But it reads like research. Yeah. Because it is research. You know? Hainek is like, here's account number one, here's account number two. They're all saying the same thing. It must be research. You know what I mean? Yeah. Um, he gets into some other stuff. I didn't read the whole book because it's out of print, but it's super boring. It's super boring. But I did the I read a lot of reviews from people who did read it. So I feel like that's the same thing.

Bobby 51:11

Yeah, I'm not a doctor, but I play one on TV.

Michelle 51:13

That's exactly right. Um so basically, because of this bad guy in Brogno, the book is like discredited and like there basically he gives it took a long time for his name to for some I don't know who it was who came who outed this man as being a fraud. But what's oh no.

Bobby 51:36

Maybe it was the hotline calling you back.

Michelle 51:38

Yeah, did you crank call me earlier?

Bobby 51:41

Have you seen something?

Michelle 51:42

Yeah. We're calling because you wanted to tell us about a UFO.

Bobby 51:46

That's what they do when you call, they pretend it's disconnected. Yeah. And then they call you back.

Michelle 51:50

You know, it did sound like a suspicious thing. It was like trying to sell me the phone number.

Bobby 51:54

Super sus.

Michelle 51:55

Yeah, it was sus. It was like, can we can find you a different business? Anyway, um, so this book comes out. I don't know who outed this man as being a bald-headed villain, but after he gets outed.

Bobby 52:09

If it wasn't anybody, he is now.

Michelle 52:13

After he gets outed, it um that book loses all, you know, it has a bad name now. Now the whole everybody in the Hudson Valley looks like a kook because this guy ruined it for everyone.

Greg 52:26

That's a uh a military tactic as well. Yeah, where they'll I'm not saying this is what he did, but what they'll do is they'll give someone um it's essentially a military asset or someone that has like a little bit more of inside information, and they'll essentially poison the well. They'll go in, spread dumb shit, and then that discredits everything else. So people stop talking about it, and like anything that comes up related to this, if he's like the spokesperson or something for it, it then becomes like, oh, it's just all nonsense. Like, look at all the nonsense he wrote.

Michelle 53:04

Like that's what the um when I covered the Dulce base, uh, same thing. That that one poor guy, that's exactly what they did to him, and they admit it. They're like, we fed him a bunch of misinformation, so he would go out and say it, and then we could be like, look at this crazy guy, don't look behind the curtain.

Bobby 53:21

Did he kill himself? The Dulcide guy?

Michelle 53:23

I forget. Everybody died really tragically in that story. Like, like kill himself. Like, you mean he got murdered by a fake suicide? Then yeah.

Bobby 53:32

Yeah, that's what I meant.

Greg 53:33

Yeah, yeah. He hung himself and shot himself twice with a shotgun.

Bobby 53:36

That's right. That's right. Yeah, their levels of their ability to spread disinformation is spectacular and so well executed.

Greg 53:44

And I think a lot of people, like, there's a lot of shows that cover these topics that have people on that like I'll pay attention to and listen to, and I'm just like, oh, he's like, he's here to be that useful idiot. Yeah. Yeah. Again, I'm not saying that's what like this uh imbrogno dude is, but like it just sounds like that's what it is, where it was just like this is how we're gonna get people to stop talking about whatever this was.

Michelle 54:06

Turns out he did work for the military. Oh shit.

Bobby 54:10

I'm just very upset that they burned such a sick title, like Night Siege. I know on this on this fake book. It's a fucking dick. Yeah.

Michelle 54:18

Okay, so there's also another lady I want to talk about. Her name is Linda Zimmerman. Um, all right, I don't know her personally, but I feel like kindred spirits. Like this lady is pretty rad. Like maybe she's like a lost aunt or something or cousin or some shit. But she lives up in the Hudson Valley, and she is like the local ghost paranormal lady. You know, she's writing books, she's like doing radio shows, she's a rad. She's just a rad lady. And people would call her all the time and be like, yo, I saw a UFO. And she'd be like, I don't do UFOs, sorry, you know? And eventually she gets enough phone calls or whatever about UFOs that she's like, okay, fine, I'll do UFO. So she writes a book called Hudson Valley UFOs, The Best Evidence, but she also does a documentary at the same time. And I watched this documentary, it's illegally available on YouTube. It's two hours, and you know, in the same vein as Heinek, she just interviews people and lets them tell their story, you know. But this was made in like 2013, I think. So these people had seen this in 1983, so it's not super fresh, but some people are in the documentary are also talking about things they saw more recently. There's even a guy who saw something in the 50s, you know. So it's like just a lot of people from the Hudson Valley who have seen UFOs. There's even a man who is in contact with an alien being who does actually show herself to him at one point. And guess what? She looks like a tall white.

SPEAKER_01 55:58

Ooh, she's a tall white.

Michelle 55:59

She's a tall white. She looks at he was like, he looks like a beautiful Swedish woman. And I was like, oh, tall white, learned about that. Also at Dulce. Go back, listen to that episode. It's well, you know what? I don't know if it's good because I was really overwhelmed. But crazy.

Greg 56:14

To be honest, the the Dulce episode is probably my favorite so far. It's super fun.

Bobby 56:21

Yeah, from like it's a wild ride from top to bottom.

Greg 56:23

Yeah, it's like a multi-level, like it literally is a multi-level thing, but like it was just it got crazier and crazier.

Bobby 56:29

Yeah.

Michelle 56:30

I can't tell you guys how tweaked out I was trying to research the thing.

Bobby 56:33

Yeah, when you pop into the sketchy ass Dulce elevator, you gotta buckle up.

Michelle 56:37

That's right, you do, you do. Okay, so Linda goes out, she makes this documentary, which starts at the Pine Bush UFO fair day. So I got to get a little sneak peek of what this what this day actually looks like. And Pine Bush, New York has become almost like a Roswell, like everything's a little kitschy alien situation, you know, like even the local diner is called the cup and saucer. And it's like a teacup and a flying saucer. You know? It's so cute, you guys. It's a cute little alien town. And she goes there and she starts interviewing people, and then she travels around the Hudson Valley and she interviews mostly people who had, you know, one of these 1983, 84, 85 experiences. W one of the things that I found really interesting was she also comes upon a UFO support group that meets, I think like the first Monday of the month in Pine Bush. And it feels like an AA meeting. You know, it's like a bunch of dudes in a church basement. Uh not just dudes, there's women there as well. Um, but I just, you know, I think I found it to be really beautiful that there is this like semi-organized thing that people can go to and talk freely with each other about whatever it was that they saw, you know, and they can get into some high strangeness. It doesn't have to be just I saw a UFO in 1983, it can be whatever. Um, some people there have been going for decades, you know. Some of them go religiously every time they have a meeting, and some of them just kind of pop in. But it seemed like, I don't know, just like a like I've I have found the UFO and paranormal community to be super welcoming and just really, really wonderful people. And so I can imagine being someone who saw something and not being able to talk about it or not having like I mean, can you even go to your therapist and be like this traumatic thing happened to me and I can't talk to you about it because I sound like a crazy person or whatever. You know what I mean? Like, where do you go with this? And these people have created a place to go. And I just thought that was amazing.

Greg 59:07

Yeah, I was gonna say if you start telling people like in any kind of author, like official authoritative position, it's just like, oh yeah, you're a limited.

Michelle 59:15

Right.

Bobby 59:16

Yeah, it's so dismissive, especially something that is potentially so traumatic for an individual.

Michelle 59:20

Exactly. Yeah, you have this trauma that you walk around. And and this woman, Linda Zimmerman, in in the documentary, she does also ask these people, how did this affect your life? You know, and some people aren't affected at all. They're like, I don't know how it affected my life, but like it was crazy, you know. And some people are like, it has wrecked me. Yeah, I've never been the same. This is crazy. Um, another woman was like, I had to find religion because that shit was nuts, and that was I'm a born-again Christian, so I truly believe that I saw the devil. And so, you know, what people are affected by this, you know.

Greg 59:55

It's also fascinating the the words that we uh like ascribe to these events and these things. Yeah, like if you are a religious person, you'll be like, Oh, it was a demon or a djinn, or yeah, like that was demonic. And it's just like, oh, like, but people some people call them aliens and spirits and like whatever. Like, yeah, like we have a lot of words for all of the same um experiences, essentially.

Michelle 1:00:19

And I mean that's true worldwide, right? You know? Yeah. So anyway, uh, this woman who was not a believer, um, I mean, she was, you know, obviously already in this like paranormal world, but like, you know, I think I personally, I will speak for myself, I believe in a lot of stuff, a lot of spooky stuff, but like I do have a line. And when it gets crossed, I'm like, oh, I no longer like this isn't I don't believe this anymore. Like, you cross my line. And sometimes I'm surprised by what my line is, you know. Um, and for whatever reason, this lady's line was aliens and UFOs. She was like, I believe in ghosts all day, but UFOs, no, you know. So she goes and interviews all these people and she like gets into these support groups and like whatever, and she leaves being a believer, you know. She flies in a fucking ultralight, you know, and she was like, that was awesome. Also, couldn't have been ultralights, but like she really liked that experience.

Greg 1:01:19

That's the one of the cooler things about like like this community is just the people that will go out to try to test their own things. And like they they question authority so much that they'll they'll go out to either prove them right or wrong. Like and a lot of the times it's just like, oh yeah, my ideas on this were dumb. And yeah. I don't know why I but used to believe that. Right. And and now I don't because I did the test myself.

Michelle 1:01:44

Right. Um, it's something interesting too, is like because so many people in this in this relatively small area had experiences and then everyone uh debunked it, you know, or everyone being like the news media or whatever is like you guys are are crazy, you know. Um, it creates this area of people who don't trust the government, who don't trust the news, you know? And it's like everyone, it's not just like, oh, the one weird guy in town. It's like, no, the whole town doesn't trust the government because the government doesn't trust them. So in the documentary, she even talks about like this area being, you know, really full of people who are a tinfoil hat wearing conspiracy theorists, you know, and just because they're paranoid doesn't mean it's not true. Um but one of the interesting things uh that I think is like there's a show, it's currently on HBO called Alien Invasions. And there's a guy named Ben Hansen who's a former FBI agent. Now he hosts TV shows. There's an investigator from Ancient Aliens named Melissa Tittle, I think. Um, and there's also a guy in the Hudson Valley episode called uh named Mark DiAntonio, and he has a degree in astronomy and is a MUFON chief photo video analyst. And so they cover this story as well, and they do some stuff that I think is super interesting, which is like why the Hudson Valley? Like what makes this a hot spot? Are there like minerals in it? Like, is the land rich with something? And it is, dude. It's got a lot of iron ore, maganite. There's also a lot of quartz, also has a lot of tourmaline, which I think is really pretty and comes in a lot of different colors.

Bobby 1:03:39

Very powerful stone to ward off evil spirits.

Michelle 1:03:42

I use it all the time. So this all sounds super legit fucking vortex making area shit to me. So on the show, they interview a guy who sound who heard a sound, you know, and we all know Greg loves fucking Sonic Warfare. So these guys would be up Greg's alley because they try to recreate the sound that this guy heard, and then they play it. And I mean, there were lights in the sky. I mean, they may have like called some aliens and they get it on video. It's very, it's a very like ghost hunters alien edition type thing. But then they start testing people's blood because they have a theory or you know, something that they're researching about RH negative blood. So I don't know where they got this idea from, but they took a bunch of people who have been seeing UFOs for either like since the 80s, but also maybe multi-generational, you know, like some people, especially in the town of Pine Bush, are like, my whole family has seen UFOs as far back as we have family history. These guys from Alien Invasion are like, why? You know, so they start testing their blood, like maybe aliens are doing some gene DNA testing or whatever, and that's why they keep coming back to the same people or the same family lines because there's something in these specific human uh genes or DNA or whatever, and something they start looking for is Rh negative blood.

Greg 1:05:13

Lizard people.

Michelle 1:05:16

So I tried, you know, it's been a long time since I went to med school, but I tried to look up what Rh is, and it's a protein in our blood, but it doesn't seem to like do anything. So people who have Rh negative blood, I mean, if they need a blood transfusion, then like they need other Rh negative blood, but otherwise it like doesn't do it's not like a protein that does this to you or doesn't do that. It seems fine. Um, so at the very end of the episode, Alien Invasions Hudson Valley edition on the screen they say that they cannot tell us because of like HIPAA laws or whatever if these people's blood work came back as RH negative. Um you know. I uh assume they're they're trying to rope me in to this, you know. But they did say that some of the tests came back positive for our negative blood. So there could be something to the genus. There could be something to the tourmaline, there could be a reason why the Hudson Valley is a hot spot, but I don't know what it is. All I know is it wasn't ultralight.

Bobby 1:06:23

Fucking A. Fucking A. Alright, there it is.

Michelle 1:06:25

Yeah. So if you saw an ultralight or you saw a UFO or you have RH negative blood, whatever it is.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:34

Give us proof.

Michelle 1:06:35

Yeah, send us your blood work.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:37

Or your blood. Um just kidding, please don't send us your blood.

Michelle 1:06:41

No, never send us your blood, please ever, never ever. Um, but do call us at the Strange Exchange at 929-445-3705 and tell us, but don't send us anything.

Bobby 1:06:55

If you can get your blood through the phone lines, I'll allow it.

Michelle 1:06:58

No, I don't want it even in the phone lines.

Bobby 1:07:00

I want to see it.

Greg 1:07:00

We can give it a shot. I don't know how that would work. Exactly. Yeah, we'll figure out the technology. I'll be impressed. This does uh like remind me of um the Phoenix lights in Arizona. It's kind of the same thing. It's about 10 years later, it was like 97 that happened. And it was funny too, because like the official report was that it was just they were flares being dropped from F-16 or something like that. And it was just like, no. Like, but that's what the FAA, like the FAA and the military say. It was just like a routine thing, nothing to see here.

Bobby 1:07:32

We're just doing our normal flare dropping from our F-16s. Yeah.

Michelle 1:07:36

I love that the FAA in Arizona in the 90s was like, oh, it's flares, don't worry about it. But the FAA in New York in the 80s was like, who gives a fuck? Yeah, who cares?

SPEAKER_02 1:07:45

As long as they following the rules, we're gonna give who shit.

Michelle 1:07:47

We don't give a fuck what dimension they come from.